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81
Features / best player youve seen playing against the villa at V P
« Last post by martin@ on October 18, 2010, 12:50:03 PM »
I remember being really impressed with Jimmy Greaves playing for spurs in the early 1960s



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82
Features / R.I.P. Big Mal
« Last post by martin@ on October 18, 2010, 12:37:29 PM »
Sorry to hear of the death of Malcolm Allison today- one of the great characters of the 70s!



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83
Day by Day / worst away day ever
« Last post by martin@ on October 18, 2010, 12:28:45 PM »
Not just losing, but everything that can go wrong does go wrong.

Boxing Day 1976 Middlesbrough away.
My Mom and Dad are going in his nice big fancy Datsun hes just got. I could go and do the driving but no, I have to travel up with a mate in my mini 850 and be independent. Who wants to go with their parents when your 19 ?
The games lost 3-2, getting out of town Im actually behind my Dad at the traffic lights as they change, he moves off and I stall. Bye dad ! The car wont start and the headlights are flickering as I try to get going, I pull the choke out to see if that does the trick. Oops, in my temper Ive really pulled the choke out, as in I now have a a button with a piece of loose cable in my hand. Thats an added problem as the car wasnt ticking over right before and for a few days Ive been driving with the choke just ever so ever so slightly out so it didnt cut out. Ok I get out we need to get help, now its started to snow, real snow. I find a garage and the guy comes out and tows us in, charges us about £30 to charge the battery up and get us going. As long as I drive and keep my foot on the gas a bit at all times it wont cut out, sort of improvise using my other foot to the brake. About 30 miles down the lights are starting to dim, it dawns on me that the battery isnt charging so if I stop and I wont get started again. So now, as long as I drive non stop to Birmingham through the snow with the headlights getting dimmer and keep my foot on the gas at all times so it doesnt cut out we will be ok. Dont forget there was no fast road from the M1 then, so Ive got to negotiate down through Ashby and Measham when you come off at Castle Donnington. I nearly made it, I very nearly made it. 2/3 miles from home I stall at a set of traffic lights. After walking through snow drifts in Walmley at 2 in the morning I get to a phone box and the old man comes out to the rescue (they were back at about 8pm).
"Thats its dad, I aint ever going to an away match again!"
"Calm down son, you will you will"

Posted by Andy_Lochead_in_the_Air - Click for more
84
Day by Day / A selling club
« Last post by martin@ on September 30, 2010, 12:36:12 PM »
Watching MOTD just now, in the aftermath of the highlights of our match, Lawrenson said (and I paraphrase) "it's going to be interesting to see how the chairman acts, because Villa seem to have become a selling club, they sold Barry last year and Milner this year, it looks like the chairman has considered the investment needed, and the wage bill, and decided enough is enough".

Now, even taking into account the fact that Lawro is a gigantic friend of Martin, so to speak, I thought this was the best example yet of the way the media have so eagerly bought into this notion of us as a selling club.

Interesting that he cited the two top level players we've sold, and we sold them both to Manchester City, having had the predictable financial pressure they have at their disposal placed on us. Pressure which pretty much no club, or player, could withstand.

I wonder, why Internazionale aren't being labelled a selling club for selling Balotelli to them? Or Arsenal for selling them both Adebayour and Toure? Or Everton for selling them Lescott?

Are we going to shake off this label, or is it going to become a self fulfilling prophecy? Manager leaves, assumptions are made that it is about star player being sold, season goes to shit, remaining star players get unsettled, want to leave, circle repeats.

I'm strongly of the opinion that the chairman has invested very well in us, and will continue to do so, but this strikes me as an absolutely crucial period for him, his stewardship of the club is going to need to be absolutely spot on, because this could very, very easily go the wrong way, if events start to spiral - the die is cast, the media have made their mind up.

Clubs sell players, it happens - as well as the examples listed above, I don't remember Spurs being labelled as a selling club for selling Carrick and Berbatov to Man United - but it seems to me that they really, really do have it in for us at the moment.

Or am I being overly paranoid?

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85
In General / our neighbours
« Last post by martin@ on September 30, 2010, 10:03:46 AM »
Then again, it's about time this got another airing....

The fact that every time the Hawthorns gets near capacity they can't cope, the Alex Cropley game when they set out for ninety minutes to kick anything in claret and blue, Alan Baker, John Woodward, Ray Graydon, their sanctimonious holier-than-thou we're only a little team and we're going to enjoy ourselves everybody likes us attitude, the fact that their most famous supporter made a career out of humiliating their most famous ex-player - a man who it is now known was suffering from a degenerative brain disease, their absolute hatred of us (and me or Coops can supply a list of places to pop into before or after the match for anyone who thinks that they're all nice and friendly), the time we beat them 7-2 in a reserve match then in the return a month later they had nine of their first team playing because they couldn't bear losing again, their pretence of being nowhere near Birmingham despite their post code and phone number, their stupid jumping up and down and making twats of themselves in the name of atmosphere, letting the likes of Soccer AM makes fools of them and degrading all football supporters everywhere by implication, still going on about Ronnie Allen and 1959 like it's the most important thing to ever happen in their sad, woebegotten lives and it probably is, not being able to get a drink anywhere near the ground, constant whining of it ay fair and the world's against them, just watch tomorrow how many of them blame the referee for all seventeen of our goals, moaning that the local press are biased against them despite the fact that they've got more supporters in the media than us and Small Heath put together, Adrian Chiles, Skinner again, endlessly complaining that they would have won the league in 1979 if the weather hadn't turned cold in January like it wasn't the same for every other club in the first division, bleating on and on and on about how loyal they are just because their crowds didn't get as low as the Wolves like that makes any difference, having the highest percentage of middle aged fat blokes walking round supermarkets in football shirts of anywhere in the world including Newcastle, having a civic reception for finishing third in the third division, showing Ossie Ardiles what Smethwick looks like from the top of a double decker bus then wondering why he fecked off the next week, every time a player leaves them they always moan he's only gone for the money even when they're swapping Smethwick for Madrid, Willie Johnstone, that bloody stupid bird stuck on the top of the scoreboard, those executive boxes with corrugated iron roofs, playing the Liquidator just like their big bad rivals in the Stadium of Yellow, that stupid metal sheeting at the back of the old away end that meant I missed every goal when we were three up at half time there, having to play in the morning in the FA Cup 1990, the half time message in the second division "Will Villa supporters please move forward, there are still some trying to get in", boasting about giving a policeman brain damage at Villa Park in 1978 but they're still nice & friendly, being surrounded by the bastards in the Witton Lane stand in 1974, never enough buses back down Holyhead Road, being the only local league club to insist on playing Birmingham Senior Cup games at home and thus depriving the local non-league teams of a decent gate, thinking they have a God-given right to park anywhere they like and moaning when they get tickets for parking on double yellow lines, you can bet there'll be more face paint and stupid wigs per supporter than at any other ground in the country and I include Newcastle in that again, the six wankers shouting their gobs off on the bus when I was going back home after the game in 1982, the very quiet one who was left when his five mates got off, the 1887 cup final when they planned to get the train back via Worcester to avoid travelling through Birmingham with the cup, except the cup went straight back to Aston without them ha fucking ha, coming up and saying that they weren't going to spend any money because they wanted to go straight back down and use the parachute payments to get back again, Skinner and Chiles walking up and down Witton Lane looking for camera crews, making out Bryan Robson was a returning hero when they'd hated him ever since he left, forgetting now that they wanted him hung a month after he became manager, the day they stayed up and reckoned everybody in the country loves them because they're such a nice inoffensive club with wonderful fans, having to get coaches to come three miles down Island Road, that fucking sanctimonious Grorty Dick fanzine that used to call us arrogant yet made out that they were such a big club, then had a celebration issue when they beat us in a youth match I kid you not, being the only Villa supporter in a school of 1,600 of the bastards when they didn't care about Wolves, getting a manager sacked because of a low crowd for a pre-season friendly, Alex Cropley again, Eric Clapton and I'm sure UB40 used to say they supported them when they were good, the fucking Albion that is not UB40, having their end named after a city they hate, an evening paper that treats playing Manchester United in the league in the same patronising way that Kidderminster Harriers would get in the FA Cup, Jim Cumbes dropping down two divisions because our crowds were bigger, treating reserve matches as something really big and important, having a shopping centre in the town and gates at their ground named after a player who scored in a cup final and cost England the World Cup, this supposed 'big vlub' making a fuss of winning the third division play-offs, Terry Wills who although he is a very nice man should be told that he does not have to go on every radio station after every match,asking us to play friendlies and still treating our supporters like shit, wanting every manager sacked after three defeats, Bob Taylor, every one of their supporters over fifty was at the ground when they relegated us in 1959 and will talk forever about it but none of them remembers us stopping them winning the league four years earlier, you're not telling me it's a coincidence that Alistair Fucking Brown got a job working for them after his thuggish career was mercifully brought to an end, knowing more about how Bayern Munich should have won the European Cup in 1982 than Bayern Munich do, my irritating little shit of a cousin Luke who used to support Manchester United then got a season ticket up there when they got into the Premier League, including Prisoner 820468 Hughes, L, in a book called Cult Heroes and I bet the family of the bloke he killed have got a better and similar description for him, some knobhead I heard saying all he wanted to do when they went down was come back up win the cup and kick fuck out the Villa then talked about football for ten minutes and never once went off the subject of how much he hates us, I bet that Everton fan they blinded thinks they're lovely, a town centre where the best pub is a Wetherspoon's and the best restaurant is McDonalds, how every time we beat them and there'sa  lot to choose from they always complain that they'd rather lose than play like us like they have a choice, putting reserve teams out in games they're going to lsoe anyway but it's alright for them to do it, every tiem they come up saying they don't intend to spend any money because we're ony a little team and we're doing ever so well to be here in the first place, Tony Mowbray always claiming moral victories...

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86
In General / New Big ‘Ead – Is Martin O’Neill really like Brian Clough?
« Last post by martin@ on August 17, 2010, 10:44:00 AM »
When James Milner returned from his post-World Cup contract negoti – sorry, holiday – the emnity between club and player was seemingly resolved in what was termed an ‘amicable chat’. Martin O’Neill went on to quote the manager who figures largest in his footballing career, Brian Clough, by concluding that they sat down together, talked about it and decided in the end that the manager was right.

You’d be forgiven for thinking that Brian Clough stalks the corridors of Villa Park in the way that a fictional Don Revie stalked Elland Road in The Damned United, the book and film about Clough. For a man who had his best success on the odd side of the Midlands, he doesn’t half loom large in claret and blue these days.

In the modern era, with a plethora of Premier League coaches coming from Europe and a dearth of British ones that give good copy (as anyone who heard Mick McCarthy’s World Cup punditry will attest), Martin O’Neill is a sports editor’s dream because not only did he play under Brian Clough but with his wit and his personality, he’s virtually Cloughie reborn. However, is this in danger of damaging Aston Villa?

There is nothing wrong in wanting to emulate Cloughie – well, the glory parts, anyway. He was one of the most successful British managers of all time, and took two unfashionable clubs from the even more unfashionable East Midlands to the peaks of the game. His outspoken nature also endeared him to fans. Brian Clough was a man of sharp mind and tongue and this has led to some of his more quotable lines being set in stone as football’s holy writ. Based on all that, who wouldn’t want our very own version cutting a sarcastic swathe across the modern game?

Well, it appears, not as many Villa fans as previously thought. This summer, the internet has been awash with discord emanating from fans of Aston Villa at O’Neill’s total control and the lack of positive news coming from the club. The lack of transfer activity and the James Milner saga, coming exactly two years after we suffered the Gareth Barry debacle, have left many in a state of high dudgeon.

Ironically enough, it is those qualities that our manager seems to share with his former boss that are beginning to grate on some Villa fans. Both share the same ambition (some might say bloody-mindedness), both are fiercely loyal to their backroom staff, and both share complete control of their clubs. Both men built sides that favoured tricky wingers and big powerful centre-forwards, and both men have made decisions that have baffled or angered fans and not really held their hands up to those mistakes.

Many managers, especially in the latter years of their careers, have shared these qualities, but nobody has fitted the coat of Clough as snugly as O’Neill has. Clough managed at a time when his word was law and being abrasive didn’t matter as long as the result followed. Of course, this is simplifying it a tad, but the manager had enough personality for the whole squad put together. We see echoes of it in O’Neill’s management style – there are not many huge personalities in the Villa squad, and those that do step out of line tend to be punished (we’re looking at you, John).

But is this too simplistic a comparison? There is a danger of mixing up Cloughie the man with Cloughie the cartoon. For all of his big headed bluster, his darker side was forgotten until after he slew of biographies that followed The Damned United. They showed Clough could be a caring, generous man, but he could also come across as uncaring and unnecessarily sharp. People used to say that his OBE stood for ‘Outspoken But Enigmatic,’ and that just about sums him up. His presence in the media shielded the uglier and less successful aspects of Clough’s career, for better and for worse. Clouting fans who ran on the pitch, his petty and unnecessary feud with former colleague Peter Taylor, the times when he seemed to cause arguments for the sake of it. That was just Brian being Brian.

O’Neill, by contrast, is a more circumspect figure. Listen to any of his press conferences and he says a lot without actually telling you anything, and this is a difference with Clough’s style that rankles fans. He always keeps people guessing, and though he has a natural wit and a charm of his own, he treats the media nothing like Clough did. He doesn’t make verbal assaults, he doesn’t splash exclusives across tabloids and he doesn’t hit fans then call a press conference so they can apologise to him.

So what does this tell us? We can say that what we know of each man’s personality means that O’Neill is an ersatz Clough if not an exact copy, but does it do Aston Villa any good? If Clough were in his prime today and at the helm at Villa Park, would we be spending half the transfer budget on silver polish right now?

Well, Clough was successful, there’s no arguing with that. It is pointless to speculate how his winning sides would get on in the modern game, but if O’Neill is the closest exponent of that style, you can’t claim that either man would be walking up the Wembley steps anytime soon. We have seen Villa’s shortcomings in the league, in Europe and in cups, even if in the latter we came tantalisingly close. And we only have to look at the trouncing dished out by Benfica a few weeks ago to see how limited the way that style of play is.

Villa’s frantic rushing certainly can get the blood going, but the style struggles to win many friends even among home fans. Both managers would argue that it’s the results which stare back from the history books rather than how it was achieved, but the world has changed. The World Cup final, for example, showed just how off-putting a physical and one-dimensional strategy can be. Fitness and doggedness are one thing, but for O’Neill to truly be appreciated like his mentor was, beauty has to triumph over strength, and from what we have seen in the past four years, that appears to be as far away as it ever was.

The good news is that Martin O’Neill is not Brian Clough – he’s a deeper thinker who is succeeding in a game which has little time for mavericks as it is. The upward momentum he has bought to Villa has won him many friends and admirers outside of the Villa fans, and the word is that his chairman still appreciates what he gives to the club. The man is always capable of springing a surprise signing before the end of the transfer window that would ally a lot of the sniping, and a number of the players used to get him into the position the club is now in seem to be on borrowed time. Only when we see who he replaces them with will we know if he’s his own man with his own style, or if he’s doomed to always walk in the shadow of another.

Chris Stanley

Discuss Here........
87
In General / Iportant Ticket News
« Last post by martin@ on August 16, 2010, 12:39:36 PM »
Ticket News: Following progression through to the Carling Cup Final and FA Cup Semi Final during the 2009-10 season, the Club can now announce a revised system of ticket allocation for future cup semi/final fixtures held at neutral venues......... More..
88
Features / Memories - My First Villa Match
« Last post by martin@ on August 06, 2010, 10:36:27 PM »
I am sure this has been done many times before, but there may be someone out there who hasn't posted this yet !

My first match was away to Arsenal in 1978, when I was 7, and we won 1-0 with an own goal by Malcolm McDonald I believe.

My main memories of it are seeing the pitch as I stepped into the ground, wondering why I couldn't hear Brian Moore commentating, and the fact it was so muddy that Villa came out in a clean shirts for the second half !

I am taking my six year old daughter to her first match tomorrow and like me it's at Arsenal, but unlike me, she wants to see Arsenal ! I made the mistake of letting her choose her own team and she didn't choose the Villa ! Her older brother is a Gooner too.

Am I allowed to post here again after these confessions ?!

Posted by - John Deeham
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89
In General / Here We Go Again
« Last post by martin@ on August 04, 2010, 05:12:07 PM »
Club Statement

Aston Villa can confirm that Martin O'Neill has resigned as manager of the football club with immediate effect.

Kevin MacDonald, reserve team manager, has assumed the role of caretaker manager and will prepare the team for the opening Barclays Premier League game of the season against West Ham on Saturday at Villa Park.

Paul Faulkner, chief executive of Aston Villa, said: "The club would like to thank Martin for the great work he has done at Aston Villa over the past four years. He has helped to establish the club in the upper echelons of the Premier League, has taken us to Wembley and we have also qualified for European competition for the past three seasons under his management. We wish him the best in the future."

Martin O'Neill said: "I have enjoyed my time at Aston Villa immensely. It's obviously a wrench to be leaving such a magnificent club. I would like to pay tribute to the Villa players, my coaching staff and the Villa supporters for all the support and encouragement they have given both the club and me personally during my time as manager. I wish them all the best for the future. I will obviously be assisting the club in the immediate short-term with regard to the handover of my duties."

No further comment will be made by either Aston Villa or Martin O'Neill until further notice.

Discuss this with other Villa fans
90
Day by Day / Villa History - Murder Most Foul
« Last post by martin@ on August 04, 2010, 03:57:17 PM »
[float=left][/float]Few people can take the tabloid press seriously more, and with little wonder, as telling what really happened comes a poor second to finding some sensationalist angle with which to sell more copies to a public seeking its daily fix of sex 'n' horror. But with every tiny incident blown out of proportion, can you imagine how The Sun and The Star would cope with a real story. How, for example would they have dealt with the happenings of November 1923? For then occurred one of the most dramatic, yet little known episodes in the history of football.

The day of November 10th started promisingly, with Villa winning 1-0 away at Notts County, at that time a decent First Division side. This victory saw the team go third in the table and was aided by a good perfor¬mance by 24 year old Tommy Ball. Born in County Durham in February 1899, he had been playing for a local colliery team when he attracted Villa's attention, being signed in January 1920 as cover for Frank Barson. First team appearances were limited during the next couple of years, but when Barson left for Manchester United in the summer of 1922 Ball took his place and quickly became recognised as one of the league’s best centre-halves. The Notts County game was his 77th for the Villa, but while Ball was never destined for great things on the pitch he nevertheless holds a unique place in footballing history. For as far as we can tell, Thomas Ball, over the weekend of 10/11 November 1924, became the only professional in the Football League ever to have been murdered.

Naturally, the facts of the case have been blurred over the years, with even the date of Ball's murder in dispute. Some reports say it occurred on the tenth, others the following evening. But the circumstances of his death are consistent. Ball find his wife Beatrice spent the evening at the Church Tavern, Perry Barr before catching a bus to their home in Brick Kiln Lane, also Perry Barr, shortly after ten p.m. Ball took Ills dog for a walk, but a few minutes later staggered back home assisted by his neighbour and landlord George Stagg. He had been shot twice and died before assistance could be fetched. Stagg, a former policeman, was arrested and taken to West Bromwlch police station where he was charged with Ball's murder.

The funeral on November 19th was by all accounts a grand occasion, with a crowd of hundreds watching as the cortege made its way from Beatrice Ball's family home in High Street, Aston to St. John's church Perry Barr. The coffin was borne by Villa players and there were floral tributes from nearby clubs as well as Ball's local Middlesbrough F.C. A collection at Villa's previous game had raised over a hundred pounds for Ball's widow.

The inquest into his death heard evidence that Stagg had admit led the killing but claimed it had occurred when Ball had attempted to grab Stagg's gun, which he had fired previously in an attempt to frighten Ball. Despite the coroner's recommendation the jury rejected this argument and returned a verdict of "wilful murder". Stagg was then committed for trial at Stafford Assizes.
A married man with four children, George Stagg was forty five years old at the time of his arrest. He had served in the army for many years, leaving to join the City of Birmingham Police Force for a time but volunteering for the army again when war broke out in 1914. Badly wounded, he had been invalided out two years later and worked in several local factories until in 1921 he bought two cottages in Brick Kiln Lane, letting one to the newly married Balls in October 1922. The two families were not friendly neighbours though, and there were several arguments mainly over Ball's pets.

The trial began at Stafford on February 19th, 1924 and the court heard Stagg's claims for the night in question. An argument had broken out, and a drunken, abusive Ball had attempted to climb his neighbour's bolted gate, threatening both Stagg and his wife. Stagg claimed that he had then fired a warning shot and tried to push Ball away with the muzzle of his gun. A struggle had ensued, and the gun had gone off hitting Ball in the chest. Stagg also said that Mrs Ball had backed his claims of innocence and that Ball was a violent man who had often attacked her.
This, however, was disputed by Mrs Ball, who said that on the fatal night she had heard a shot and ran out of the house to find her husband staggering along the road with blood pouring from his chest. A second shot was then fired, which passed over her head. Both versions contrasted with earlier reports that Ball had been shot in the head, and there are no records remaining of medical evidence being introduced at either the inquest or trial.

Mrs Ball further stated that her husband was a moderate drinker who had been perfectly sober on the night of his murder. They had been happily married, she said, and he had never struck her. Ball's excellent character was further emphasised by Villa trainer Alfred Miles. The jury took just two hours to reach a guilty verdict, but added a strong recommendation for mercy. The judge passed sentence of death upon Stagg, but passed on the jury's recommendation to the Home Secretary. What happened after that is another mystery. It has been said that the sentence was commuted to life imprisonment, but other reports state that Stagg was executed at Stafford although the date of his death, whether by execution or many years later from natural causes, is not known.

If anyone knows the outcome of the story, I'd be pleased to know. It's not impossible that Beatrice Ball might still be alive, along with descendants of George Stagg, although no-one involved could be blamed for wanting everything kept quiet and eventually forgotten. As for the Villa, they continued without Tommy Ball, finishing sixth in the league and losing 2-0 to Newcastle United in the F.A. Cup Final.

We will never know what differences Ball might have made and how good a player he could have become. The great team of the early thirties, of Houghton, Walker and Waring, wasn't far off and he could have played his full part alongside them. In an age when the word tragedy is used so often as to lose its meaning, only when we read of a story such as this can we properly see just how events can be altered so dramatically.

Thanks to Derrick: Spink for his help with this article.
Published in Heroes & Villains Issue 6 August 1990

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